Wednesday, December 06, 2006

Christ or Amnesty.

Yesterday I was speaking to fellow law student who's actively involved in Amnesty International. He told me of the letters they write and campaigns they coordinate with other student groups, and invited me to come along. He also informed me that the Christian Student Union will not work together with Amnesty because of Amnesty campaign for Homosexual rights.

It frustrates me how I feel more at home with Secular Humanists than Christians, and how I would rather go to an Amnesty meeting than a meeting at the Christian union.


At 12 December, 2006 19:44, Anonymous Anonymous said...

C'mon, man! Where's the morality, as represented in Scripture? Scripture explicitly condemns homosexuality as a sin. Look in the OT (Leviticus) and the NT (any of Paul's writings!). Granted, I don't believe we should cut off dialogue with those who chose an alternative lifestyle (which by all accounts and purposes is diametrically opposed to anything that resembles the Divine) – we should attempt to minister to them and lead them back to Biblical principles. There salvation depends upon it. God forbid that we, in our fear of Truth and its consequences, lead anyone astray by a not acting.

At 13 December, 2006 20:17, Blogger Torsten Pedersen said...

Hi and thanks for your comments.

While I was mainly expressing my frustration at being out of touch with mainstream christianity, I don't think that being agianst homosexual rights is being true to the bibel.

Although I haven't studied it much, I do believe that the Bible condemns homosexual acts. Just as it condemns, amongst other things, murder, false testimony, desiring the neighbours wife, slander, hating my brother and the love of money.

However, homosexual rights are, in my opinion, simply a manifestation of any individuals right to live life as they choose. I therefore believe that homosexuals should not be criminalised, fired, abused, mistreated or have lesser legal rights than any other individuals.

I actually believe this stance to be biblical. Just as the Israelites should treat the foreigners in their land with justice (see for example leviticus 19:33), so modern society should treat homosexuals with justice.

The problem is that because of similar beliefs christians, in this case the Christian Students Union, refuses to be in the same room as humanists such as Amnesty International. I think thats wrong.

At 13 December, 2006 21:15, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Torsten - I could not agree more! That was not my point, though. Actually, I am not sure I had a point. LOL. It irritates me to death that some Christians continue to act in a manner reminiscent of the Pharisee as related to the publican. I know and work with several homosexuals. They are just like you and me - good people. They need Jesus - just like you and me. It is my belief, as well, that they should have rights to practice their life-style just like we practice our lifestyle.

My concern, especially here in America, is that many, if not most, want to shove their homosexual choices down your throat and force you to accept their lifestyle. It is coming to the point that any negative speech or denunciation against the gay lifestyle, especially coming from Christians, is being censored. Recently, there was a bill introduced in California (not my home state, thankfully) that would bar any government funding for Religious institutions (Loma Linda, PUC as examples of SDA schools) if anti-homosexual speech was permitted. This would include sermons and theology classes where students were receiving State Aid (grants, scholarships, etc).

I just find it ironic, here in America, where we cherish the 1st Ammentment, that the crowd that champions freedom of expression has no problem silencing the opposition (Evangelical Christianity, Republicans, etc.) with the threat of calling disapproval of a lifestyle hate speech. Its getting bad over here. Its unfortunate. And if you will permit me a little dig - its the Democrats, the ACLU and other liberal organizations that are at the root of this. Sorry for the dig. Its a cheap shot from someone who does not know you, but can guess your political leaning! Wait, you voted for Kerry, right? :-)

On a side note (and would make a good blog, I might add) is the flap over Christmas! Over here you have liberals who are so Politically Correct that they are taking down Christmas trees for fear of offending anyone. As if a Christmas Tree was a Christian symbol. :-) Holiday Trees and Happy Holidays are the norm here. I know, I know, I am rambling. So I will stop.

I enjoyed reading your blogs and actually also enjoy jjblogs too. My favorite article was the "Parking Lot Jesus".

Happy Holi.... um Merry Christmas!

At 14 December, 2006 17:49, Blogger Torsten Pedersen said...

I guess we were both missing each others points ;-).

Your welcome anytime to have a dig at my opinions. I myself have been taking several cheap shots against Bush and Republicans lately.

Yes, I admit that I'm liberal and even I support the ACLU. I also admit that liberals are not always right and that there is a radical, even militant, fraction on the liberal left who betray the freedoms enshrined in the 1st Amendment. The Californian bill your describing sounds really bad.

Here in the UK there seems to be no real controversy over Christmas, but there is of course no separation of church and state here.

When it comes to homosexuals, I only have one acquaintance who is openly gay. I really want him to be in the kingdom.

At 15 December, 2006 17:14, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good afternoon! Just wondering what your thoughts were on this article.

Granted, there is a right-wing spin to it - but I was curious as to your thoughts on Christian's freedom to live their lives here in America and in Europe. I will admit that I am a bit uninformed about European religiosity and freedom, though my better half has had some experiences there.

Anyhow, I appreciate your responses. One of these days when I get the nerve, I think I will start a blog.


At 15 December, 2006 17:20, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is what happens to a society without God!

At 16 December, 2006 11:16, Blogger Torsten Pedersen said...

Hi again, I've written a (rather long) response to the article on German religious freedom on my blog.

As to the Ukraine baby snatching story. I agree, it is a result of a society without God. Without God's influence humans do terrible things.

However, I don't know how you measure God's presence in society. Deeply Christian and religious societies have done (and do) similar horrible things..

At 16 December, 2006 12:38, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Torsten - very true response. What some governments have done in the name of "God" is atrocious. And they will no doubt be judged by the Almighty in a very serious way someday.

The irony of this whole conversation is that you really make me think and see the flip side/alternative viewpoint. Thats a good thing! Keeps me fair and balanced - just like Fox News!! ;-) ;-) My wife said you would - though she is a raging conservative.

I need to get an account created on this website so you can have an idea of who I am - but being anonymous is sorta fun! :-) My wife will be writing you and Becky later today. Merry Christmas.


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